Pricing complaints

[oxi]

Assuming what people online can and can’t afford is an interesting exercise.

Quite ironic when you got yourself a basic TRD Off-road, and my deposit is down for a Trailhunter. Which doesn’t prevent me to cross shop with the Tundra and F-150 Tremor right now. Ops.

See, the difference between you and me is 1) I am not a fanboy 2) even though I might buy one truck it doesn’t prevent me from using my brain and openly discuss the pros and cons of that one truck. I don’t need to convince myself and others that this truck is a super amazing deal and that every other truck on the market is crap, to be happy about my purchase.

Something that might be hard to do for a child, granted.

I did not go down to Mexicali, Mexico in 1993, was at the finish line when Ivan "Ironman" Stewart pulled his awesome V6 Toyota into 1st place overall at the 1993 Baja 1000, get his autograph the very next day after a SCORE official gave me this huge Toyota banner, spotted Ivan and asked for his autograph on that very Toyota banner to talk Chevy or Ford.

Just saying...

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[tacotac]

I did not go down to Mexicali, Mexico in 1993, was at the finish line when Ivan "Ironman" Stewart pulled his awesome V6 Toyota into 1st place overall at the 1993 Baja 1000, get his autograph the very next day after a SCORE official gave me this huge Toyota banner, spotted Ivan and asked for his autograph on that very Toyota banner to talk Chevy or Ford.

Just saying...

I get that, but this website is not Ivan Stewart’s fan page. If it was, then yes I agree it would be out of touch to talk about a Raptor.
This is a web forum. The actual purpose of this forum is to discuss about the Tacoma. Comparing the Tacoma with its direct mid size truck competition is more than relevant and authorized by the admin of this website.

I will say it one more time: I have a deposit down, I am interested in this truck, hell I might end up with one. Doesn’t mean we can’t discuss how it compares. Doesn’t mean we can’t be open about some of the cons the truck has, or its price.

This mentality on some forums of “if you don’t say 100% only positive thing about that vehicle then close your account and go on the competitor forum” has to stop. Really.

 

[oxi]

Mass profits for Toyota? Not really. How many of you own automotive manufacturers stocks? I don't because they don't return enough. Toyota's average net profit for the last 10 years has been about 10% annually. Hardly massive in the world of profit. That said, the new trucks are expensive. We each have a choice. Buy it or not. Pay a markup or not. Truth is markups would not exist if no one paid them. There are a lot of costs involved in getting that truck to the dealership. Pricing out the parts is just one of the components that going into the total price.

I always got a kick of phony flag wavers calling my Tacoma's "jap crap" and the like, stating "be American buy American" while they shop at Wal-Mart for their latest Japanese, South Korean electronics and commie Chinese products like underwear and so forth. Note, I am 13 years Wal-Mart and Target free, that is never stepped foot in either of those stores for 13 years and counting.

I explain to them, my Tacoma's were American made, and they fire back, "but the profits go to Japan" bla bla bla...

I respond in fashion explaining, Toyota is a publicly traded company, you can buy their stock and be an owner too. The "profits" go wherever the shareholders tell it to go. It's called FREE ENTERPRISE. They never question where the big 3 profits go, but Toyota oh boy.

The largest auto importers into the U.S. years ago were the big 3. Sorry, but Mexico and Canada do not fly our flag, thus an import if manufactured there. GM being the largest importer. So, where are those profits going again? Building plants in foreign nations I would guess.

How quickly they would care about where the "profits" go for Toyota but not the underwear companies, sad indeed. In the big picture, what people do with their $$$ after they pay all of their bills and obligations is their business, not mine. That being said, what Toyota does with their "profits" is their business and not mine, less I own stock.

My last 2 Tacoma's were made in the U.S. including my current Corolla that was built in Mississippi.

If people like myself want to buy a new Tacoma because we are in the market for one and want a fresh update from our 3G models, so be it. My new TRD Sport 6MT is 44k, that is it. I think that is a fair price in this horrible market conditions thanks to reckless government spending and policy garbage.

 

[oxi]

I get that, but this website is not Ivan Stewart’s fan page. If it was, then yes I agree it would be out of touch to talk about a Raptor.
This is a web forum. The actual purpose of this forum is to discuss about the Tacoma. Comparing the Tacoma with its direct mid size truck competition is more than relevant and authorized by the admin of this website.

I will say it one more time: I have a deposit down, I am interested in this truck, hell I might end up with one. Doesn’t mean we can’t discuss how it compares. Doesn’t mean we can’t be open about some of the cons the truck has, or its price.

This mentality on some forums of “if you don’t say 100% only positive thing about that vehicle then close your account and go on the competitor forum” has to stop. Really.

I was trying to add some humor to this thread...

 

[oxi]

I get that, but this website is not Ivan Stewart’s fan page. If it was, then yes I agree it would be out of touch to talk about a Raptor.
This is a web forum. The actual purpose of this forum is to discuss about the Tacoma. Comparing the Tacoma with its direct mid size truck competition is more than relevant and authorized by the admin of this website.

I will say it one more time: I have a deposit down, I am interested in this truck, hell I might end up with one. Doesn’t mean we can’t discuss how it compares. Doesn’t mean we can’t be open about some of the cons the truck has, or its price.

This mentality on some forums of “if you don’t say 100% only positive thing about that vehicle then close your account and go on the competitor forum” has to stop. Really.

I want my access cab with 6 foot bed 6MT TRD Sport option for 2024.

Not gonna happen, so I settled for what I have coming.

My 2016 SR that I sold recently came with a 6-speed auto that I was never a fan of. Toyota did not offer a manual with 4-cyl option. 8 years later, one of my best trucks besides my 2010 SR5 5MT access cab.

 

[n118nw]

Mass profits for Toyota? Not really. How many of you own automotive manufacturers stocks? I don't because they don't return enough. Toyota's average net profit for the last 10 years has been about 10% annually. Hardly massive in the world of profit. That said, the new trucks are expensive. We each have a choice. Buy it or not. Pay a markup or not. Truth is markups would not exist if no one paid them. There are a lot of costs involved in getting that truck to the dealership. Pricing out the parts is just one of the components that going into the total price.

It was quite a bit exaggerated; but your response is very true, however don't misunderstand what I was trying saying. Yes, I have owned stock in a manufacturers stock (Tesla) and I sold the last ones in July last year. 10% annual profit is quite a lot, and Toyota was amongst the highest of the ones that did turn a profit.

That being said, my complaint is really more about the dealerships, not the manufacturer. Toyota is sold all over the world--yet this country is one of the few countries where we have to buy from an independent dealership who is under no legal obligation to be transparent about their prices. With exception of transportation fees and taxes, the price I pay for a fully spec'd TRD Pro on the east coast should be exactly the same as it is on the west coast... but for some ridiculous reason, even though we can go to a farm and buy fruit and vegetables right from them, or we can go to Levi's website and buy jeans right from them, or I can go to a home builder's sales office and buy a new house right from them, we're all forced to have a independent middleman that stands to make a higher profit for that unit than the manufacturer does when buying a car.

 

[bking]

It was quite a bit exaggerated; but your response is very true, however don't misunderstand what I was trying saying. Yes, I have owned stock in a manufacturers stock (Tesla) and I sold the last ones in July last year. 10% annual profit is quite a lot, and Toyota was amongst the highest of the ones that did turn a profit.

That being said, my complaint is really more about the dealerships, not the manufacturer. Toyota is sold all over the world--yet this country is one of the few countries where we have to buy from an independent dealership who is under no legal obligation to be transparent about their prices. With exception of transportation fees and taxes, the price I pay for a fully spec'd TRD Pro on the east coast should be exactly the same as it is on the west coast... but for some ridiculous reason, even though we can go to a farm and buy fruit and vegetables right from them, or we can go to Levi's website and buy jeans right from them, or I can go to a home builder's sales office and buy a new house right from them, we're all forced to have a independent middleman that stands to make a higher profit for that unit than the manufacturer does when buying a car.

The reason is simple. The NADA (National Automobile Dealers Association). They have big money and good lobbyists. In most states it is against the law to buy direct from the manufacturer. Tesla had to put physical locations in many states to get around those laws. Don't blame the manufacturers, call your state congressman.
https://www.wispolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/State-Laws-on-Direct-Sales.pdf

 

[kweevuss]

Maybe I’m wrong, and happy to be corrected. But what seems most off to me is just how lower models seem to shoot up in price very quickly. Like the many of the SR5s I see around are 42k. I have a OR with the upgrade package for a few others at 49k on the way. I know 7k is a lot, but it doesn’t seem that insane to jump a few trim levels and gain so much more stuff. I swore I saw on an article before, most trim levels were within 1-2k of the previous gen?

But I know some cheaper options were axed, and of course only the models loaded to the gills are being built right now. Which doesn’t help it.

 

[Planoman]

It was quite a bit exaggerated; but your response is very true, however don't misunderstand what I was trying saying. Yes, I have owned stock in a manufacturers stock (Tesla) and I sold the last ones in July last year. 10% annual profit is quite a lot, and Toyota was amongst the highest of the ones that did turn a profit.

That being said, my complaint is really more about the dealerships, not the manufacturer. Toyota is sold all over the world--yet this country is one of the few countries where we have to buy from an independent dealership who is under no legal obligation to be transparent about their prices. With exception of transportation fees and taxes, the price I pay for a fully spec'd TRD Pro on the east coast should be exactly the same as it is on the west coast... but for some ridiculous reason, even though we can go to a farm and buy fruit and vegetables right from them, or we can go to Levi's website and buy jeans right from them, or I can go to a home builder's sales office and buy a new house right from them, we're all forced to have a independent middleman that stands to make a higher profit for that unit than the manufacturer does when buying a car.

Agree with your views on dealers and that business model which probably affects pricing more than it should. The price of parts and assembly was mentioned so I assumed the company Toyota. (I still say 10% profit is low) And while I may prefer Tesla or Rivian’s sales model, I am for free enterprise. Dealers employ thousands of people and I have nothing against them trying to earn a living. A knowledgeable consumer has all the power in my view. I have owned many Toyota’s and would say I am fairly brand loyal. I bought my son his Tacoma in 2020. By the time it came for my daughter's car it was early 2022 and RAV4’s were hard, especially the hybrid, to find and the prices were literally crazy for used models that were in some cases selling for more than they were when new. Some of the dealer markups were also crazy so we kept looking at other makes. I got her a new Mazda CX-5 AWD a bit under msrp and it is a superb vehicle. We always have choices as consumers.

 

[oxi]

Agree with your views on dealers and that business model which probably affects pricing more than it should. The price of parts and assembly was mentioned so I assumed the company Toyota. (I still say 10% profit is low) And while I may prefer Tesla or Rivian’s sales model, I am for free enterprise. Dealers employ thousands of people and I have nothing against them trying to earn a living. A knowledgeable consumer has all the power in my view. I have owned many Toyota’s and would say I am fairly brand loyal. I bought my son his Tacoma in 2020. My the time it came for my daughters car it was early 2022 and RAV4’s were hard, especially the hybrid, to find and the prices were literally crazy for used models that were in some cases selling for more than they were when new. Some of the dealer markups were also crazy so we kept looking at other makes. I got her a new Mazda CX-5 AWD a bit under msrp and it is a superb vehicle. We always have choices as consumers.

Free enterprise only works with less government interference.

The more government the less Freedom we have.

On the federal side alone, it's a $4 trillion plus monster, which translates into loss of Freedom's. You cannot call yourself a free nation with a monster like that ruling over you. States should have more rights and powers than the federal overlords.

I always get a kick out of folks that state, "the government should do something about..." nope, that is not how we should approach things because we end up with a phony climate agenda, DEI garbage, forced covid nonsense, massive censorship by means of "misinformation" definitions they define themselves, a military industrial complex that uses the CIA mob to lay the ground for foreign invasions by meddling in the internal affairs of sovereign nations, nowhere near having a Free Press anymore, to an educational industrial complex where it all begins and so forth.

Just look at the auto industry with its focus on EV's. Boy, that is turning out to be another farce. Toyota did a great job by stating early on, the focus should be on hybrids, but oh no, that CEO was removed with a younger one now brining more Toyota EV's into the pipeline.

Sorry, renewables will never do what fossil fuels are doing today powering our electrical grid and heating our homes. We live on LP on our property and have a 500-gallon tank outside. And the supply chain for EV batteries is just not sustainable in terms of raw materials and then what after use? Where and what are we going to recycle out of these batteries?

ICE vehicles have more efficient engines today that have cut pollution down to a minimal. My little 2022 Corolla SE is rated 42 mpg and has a range of 475 miles on a 10-gallon tank. That is better than 8 out of the top 10 EV's on the market today. And my Corolla weighs a hell of a lot less than a typical EV. It costs just 24k and real world MPG is right now 37.6 overall.

Here is a screen shot of my Corolla range and why EV's just do not cut it.

Big picture, I am always reminded of the late Marine Gen. Smedley Butler stated so well and is so true even today. A true American hero!

 

[n118nw]

Free enterprise only works with less government interference.

The more government the less Freedom we have.

On the federal side alone, it's a $4 trillion plus monster, which translates into loss of Freedom's. You cannot call yourself a free nation with a monster like that ruling over you. States should have more rights and powers than the federal overlords.

I always get a kick out of folks that state, "the government should do something about..." nope, that is not how we should approach things because we end up with a phony climate agenda, DEI garbage, forced covid nonsense, massive censorship by means of "misinformation" definitions they define themselves, a military industrial complex that uses the CIA mob to lay the ground for foreign invasions by meddling in the internal affairs of sovereign nations, nowhere near having a Free Press anymore, to an educational industrial complex where it all begins and so forth.

Just look at the auto industry with its focus on EV's. Boy, that is turning out to be another farce. Toyota did a great job by stating early on, the focus should be on hybrids, but oh no, that CEO was removed with a younger one now brining more Toyota EV's into the pipeline.

Sorry, renewables will never do what fossil fuels are doing today powering our electrical grid and heating our homes. We live on LP on our property and have a 500-gallon tank outside. And the supply chain for EV batteries is just not sustainable in terms of raw materials and then what after use? Where and what are we going to recycle out of these batteries?

ICE vehicles have more efficient engines today that have cut pollution down to a minimal. My little 2022 Corolla SE is rated 42 mpg and has a range of 475 miles on a 10-gallon tank. That is better than 8 out of the top 10 EV's on the market today. And my Corolla weighs a hell of a lot less than a typical EV. It costs just 24k and real world MPG is right now 37.6 overall.

Here is a screen shot of my Corolla range and why EV's just do not cut it.

Big picture, I am always reminded of the late Marine Gen. Smedley Butler stated so well and is so true even today. A true American hero!

I was thinking about this the other day.. my daily commuter is a 2020 VW Jetta SEL.. EPA gave it I think 40mpg hwy but usually on my morning commute I often get 50, but most of it is downhill; going home it's about 30ish. Of course that's VW mileage so take it with a grain of salt.. but I usually get 520 miles out of 13 gallons and when you do the math that's just about 43mpg, very similar to your Corolla. My wife and I were also looking at a Tesla Model 3 but with the standard range battery. I've rented them from Hertz before and have had to deal with charging. It's not too bad for commuting but I do a bit of traveling as I work in construction; if I need to go to San Antonio to Houston and back in a day, a base Model 3 can not do it; you either have to stop twice to do the quick charge or wait longer for a full charge--either requiring a hotel stay or a very long and risk fatigue-induced accidents. My office in Houston is not near a super charger. My Jetta can do it with 100 miles to spare. EV's aren't for everyone and I despise Biden for trying to push it on everyone. TBH though I don't really care about fuel economy as much. My taco is replacing a 2008 Honda Ridgeline which if I'm lucky, gets 16mpg and I've abused that thing off road so many times on the Texas beaches.. probably gets 4mpg on the sand.. but with todays batteries, there's absolutely no way any EV truck can make the full 120mile trip on Padre Island down to Mansfield Channel.

 

[AlexT]

The truck (and car) market has been out of whack the past few years but is quickly reversing direction. Prices won't go back to where they were in 2020 but many manufacturers are offering discounts and even MSRP reductions on vehicles. A new Tacoma generation is going to have some pent up demand from early adopters but they've been mass producing 200k Tacomas a year and most of those buyers just want reliable transportation at a reasonable cost. For the same equipment, the Tacoma is a few thousand more than the competition, especially when you add the upgrade or premium packages. In my area, I'm seeing a few Colorado ZR2s on the lot at MSRP or lower trims for ~$2k off. My local Toyota dealer has more Tundras on the lot than anything else. Once deliveries ramp up and the early adopter wave subsides, I think these Tacomas are going to stack up on the lots until they start discounting.

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